Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Re: Advanced Talmud and Halacha studies for women

Pinchas Hayman — Sat, 31 Dec 1994 22:00:00 -0700

As usual, much more is happening than people are aware of. It may be an
idea to form an association of institutes and agencies promoting advanced
Talmudic study for women, to help standardize and document the development
in this area. Especially important would be to inform the observant
public about development in this area, and eventually to suggest
conferences on the contribution of learned women to the halakhic process.
As an instructor of Talmud and Talmudic skills at Bar Ilan, Orot College
and Matan, I suspect that it is already possible to identify and publicize
the names of some very competent Torah scholars from these institutions.

Advanced Talmud and Halacha studies for women

Joel B. Wolowelsky — Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

I am happy to acknowledge Herzl Hefter's correction and admit to the
provincialism that made me think only of the American scene. The
programs he mentioned are well-known and widely respected for their
high academic standards. But now that he has noted these various
schools, we might ask what type of certification each of these school's
award to the women who complete their programs. Do they, like Drisha,
offer smicha-level exams in the subjects they are teaching? Men's
schools do. (Notice that I am not talking about titles, but
certification that these women can answer halakhic questions on these
topics. Titles are a more political question.)

Joel Wolowelsky

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Rabbi Herzl Hefter — Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

In response to Joel Wolowelsky's statement that advanced Talmud and
Halacha studies for women on the smicha level exists only at the Drisha
institute in NY. I am sure that Joel Wolowolsky and the learning
community at large will be pleased to know that there are a number of
serious learning programs for women in Jerusalem focusing primarily on
Talmud and Halacha. Among them: Nishmat has an advanced Hilchot Niddah
Program, MaTaN has advanced Talmud learning. At Midreshet Lindenbaum
there is a vibrant Beit Midrash of 200 women, among them 20 post graduate
scholars who receive generous stipends allowing them to focus their energy
on advanced study of Talmud and Halacha comparable to the smicha level.

Rabbi Herzl Hefter
Dean, Bruriah Scholars Program at Midreshet Lindenbaum

Re: Opportunities for women as Day School principals

Jeffrey Spitzer — Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

Let's try to be a little more inclusive. There are women who are heads of
community day schools, Conservative day schools and Reform day schools.
There aren't so many, but there are some. There are also placement
services like the JEA that aren't through YU. Personally, I like that the
heads of my school have been rabbis, but in a Schechter school, that does
not preclude a woman.

B'vrakhah,
Jeffrey A. Spitzer
Director of the Rabbinics Lab (http://www.uscj.org/ssds/boston/main.htm )
Solomon Schechter Day School of Greater Boston
Jeffrey@Spitzer.net

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Peretz Sheinerman — Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

The topic mentioned is a serious issue being faced in Jewish Education
today. There simply aren't enough principals available to fill the
positions. Firstly I believe that there needs to be a better mechanism to
train young educators into positions of school leadership. In an all boys
school I would feel that there is a need for a Rebbe role model to be the
head of the school. In a Co - ed school it is possible for this role to be
filled by a competent women, and the school rabbeim would fill any missing
gaps.
As schools become more and more demanding it is crucial that the Principal
represent a Torah philosophy, but at the same point he/she must be
competent in areas of supervision, curriculum, discipline, and most of all
(the fifth Shulchan Aruch) sechel - common sense on dealing with day to
day issues.

Rabbi Peretz Scheinerman
Educational Director - Harkham Hillel Hebrew Academy

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Moshe Sokolow — Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

I write as director of the Educational Services Program of RIETS/YU, in
which capacity I oversee placement services for educational
administrators. At the present moment, there are NO women seeking
administrative positions of any kind through the service I direct. They
may be on the private market or the JESNA or Torah U'Mesorah market, but
they are not attempting to find the positions which are being offered via
YU. Since coed day school positions are more likely to be offered through
YU than through any other communal services agency, I invite any qualified
women to forward their resumes to me (email is fine:
msokolow@ymail.yu.edu) and, after an appropriate "interview," I will
pass along to them information about suitable available positions.

Opportunities for women as Day School principals

Lisa Schlaff — Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

I am pleased to see that my original posting regarding women in
leadership positions in day schools has generated some discussion.
In response to David Katz's recent posting, I must object to the stated
need to "turn to the more substantive issue" of what makes an effective
principal. The issue of qualifications for educational leadership is a
pressing one, and one that deserves much attention. Yet, if every time
the issue of gender and leadership within the Orthodox community is raised
we feel that the issue begs redefinition, the very substantive issue of
gender and leadership will never be addressed directly.
The power structures of schools will obviously vary depending on
the size of the schools and the nature of the communities they serve.
When they are not seeking pure administrators (and clearly that is not
what we are talking about here) most schools seek out candidates with
smicha in their desire for a religious figure to determine the direction
of the school and to serve as a liaison to the community. At the same
time, it is imperative that schools seek out leaders (be it principal,
vice principal, head of limudei kodesh department, etc.) with educational
vision and professional capabilities beyond religious qualifications. A
reconsideration of the qualification of smicha for school leadership is
necessary. Yet, it would be absurd to envision an Orthodox day school
without religious figures at its helm.
The idea is not to construct a chiluk between religious leadership
and educational leadership so that we may accommodate women as
educational, but not religious leaders within our schools. Nor is it to
say that the sole requirements for day - school leadership be
professional qualifications. Such a dichotomy is unhealthy. Women who
have the appropriate religious and professional qualifications should be
afforded the opportunity to serve as school leaders. While there are
obviously societal constraints - it should perhaps be easier for us to
conceive of women leaders in the field of education than in other areas
within Orthodoxy. School leaders need not be "official" Rabbis or poskim,
but people who can engage in discourse with a learned community, and yes,
serve as a religious role model for both the community and the school - in
addition to professional qualifications. There is no reason that women
can not serve in both of these capacities.
Thus the substantive issue that I wished to raise was not "what is
the role of the principal," but that in many cases women are being
excluded from these roles, no matter how they are defined. There is just
a general sense of uncomfortability with women in positions of power,
especially when we are not dealing with all-girls schools. I trust that
we can address issues of gender in education head-on and not circumvent
them or view them as a "powder keg."
Lisa Schlaff
graduate student Rabbinic literature NYU and Drisha

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Elana Stein — Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

Concerning the issue of women role models in Yeshiva day schools and high
schools, I, being a high school student in a coed Yeshiva, can readily say
that one of the reasons that the girls in my school lack the self=20
confidence needed to succeeded is precisely this void in female
leadership. Don't get me wrong, the women involved in the Judaic studies
are wonderful, but there are only two of them (barring the Ivrit
department)!
In response to the issue of women's zimmun, I find that there is always
an awkward moment at my friends' tables before benching begins when there
are fewer than three men at the table and more than 2 women. To me, it is
a substantial problem that people mistake sincere adherence to Halacha for
"feminism." It is definitely a subject that must be addressed.

Elana Stein

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Joel B. Wolowelsky — Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

R. Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron (the current Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel) has
written, "women may be gedolei hador ... [and] serve as morei horaah
and teachers of Torah and practical halakha, as the authority for these
positions flows from the individual's talents" (Biny'an Av (Jerusalem,
1982), responsum 65, p. 287). See also Encyclopedia Talmudit (vol. 8.
s.v., hora'ah, p. 494) and the sources brought there in n. 109.

The problem is that outside of the Drisha Scholars Circle, there is no
formal training program in halakha at the smicha level for women.

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Robert Moses Shapiro — Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

Regarding women who are heads of Jewish schools, it's interesting to note
that two schools in Baltimore, Beth Tfiloh Community and Rambam, are led
by women. In the case of Beth Tfiloh, it is sponsored by the congregation
of the same name, whose rabbi functions as the spiritual leader of the
school, too, although the woman who is director of education is the chief
administrator of the school. In the instance of Rambam, the school looks
to Yeshiva University for spiritual guidance.

Robert Moses Shapiro, Ph.D.
Instructor of History
Ramaz, NYC
Voicemail 212-517-5955, ext. 428

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

David Katz — Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

In response to Judith Cohn's issues with my posting concerning women
principals, I feel compelled to state in as clear terms as I can - that a)
Lisa and I go back a long way and I certainly would never be insulting
(not to mention that I would never willingly insult anyone!) and that b)
the purpose of my posting was only to do what I said at the beginning I
was trying to do - focus the question and not state any conclusions of my
own position. Since I do not work in a co-educational setting, I
certainly do not feel qualified to comment on how to successfully
run such an institution. Too often when dealing with any issue that
mentions the word "women", people fly off the handle and bring in issues
that are not directly relevant. Since I do agree with Stuie Zweiter
(hello and regards!) that the issue of women leadership roles and finding
qualified people for our children's schools is a burning issue (and
therefore I am glad to have been a respondent to Lisa's posting), I would
like to see the discussion turn to the
substantive issues.

Since Lisa did not question whether or not a women should head an all-male
program, I raised that as a non-issue while pointing out that perhaps that
issue is also at the core here. and yes, based on that assumption Judith
Cohn asked the question that, in my opinion, is the issue here.
What makes an "effective" principal? Is it his/her management (CEO)
abilities - or is it the Mora d'atra role as well? Does the answer to that
question perhaps depend on the school and the community that school is
serving? Is there a role-model element involved? If there is a role-model
issue, then how does a co-ed school deal with providing an appropriate
balance of male/female role-models for its clientele which is just that -
co-ed!

So, you see, my sole purpose was to get beyond the powder-keg by
focusing the question on what is the role of a principal, can a man fill
that role for female students, can a woman fill that role for male
students, and how in a co-ed setting can we accomplish it.

Side point in conclusion - so long as we are all educators and are
participating in this list in an effort to have a healthy dialogue and
learn from each other's experiences, I would highly recommend that we a)
assume that everyone writing is writing to the point and not using this
list as a springboard for insults and b) we avoid personal attacks
concerning people's postings. Terms like "insulting" or "misdirection", in
my opinion, are not fair game on a list such as this. If in fact my
response to Lisa's question was misunderstood to be a violation of my own
comments in this paragraph, I apologize.

David Katz, Administrative Director - Michlelet Mevaseret Yerushalayim

[My apologies on this one. This isn't the first time that I have been
taken to task for letting something through that might be perceived as a
personal criticism. Rather than explain my entire thought process on this
one, I'll just try to be more careful in the future. Shalom]

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Avi Lottner — Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

I read some of the comments given with regards to women in leadership
roles within the religious spectrum. I have a feeling that the reason is
much simpler. I once heard from my uncle who was a student of Rav
Soloveitchik that the Rav was asked if there is a problem with having a
women officiating as a rabbi, a Posek or possibly as in a "gedol hador"
position. The Rav thought about it for a few minutes and said that he saw
no problem what so ever with that. The only problem that even if a woman
has the know-how and all the characteristics of a gadol, she must be
*recognized* as a gadol, as in having people come to her for pesakim. I
don't think that will happen in the near future.=20

One has to have a society that is open enough for such a concept (i.e., a
women rabbi and more so for a woman rabbi as a "gadol hador", as a posek).
Sadly enough its an area that is dominanted mostly by men and as in every
field it has its (if you want to call it that way) chauvinistic approaches
or the fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. It=92s a matter of a social
development of society, a social process that the religious society has to
go through.=20

I can give an example from a different field entirely. In the Israeli
army there were no religious high ranking officers. Although there were
always a few religious candidates the army didn't have to choose from them
because there were so many non-religious choices. Once the amount of
religious officers went up, they had no choice but to slowly appoint more
of them to senior positions. If you have to choose 3 out of 8 for a
certain job and 2 of the 8 people are religious you can always find a
reason for not choosing them. But if you have 5 or 6 out of 8 that are
religious it is difficult to avoid taking them. Basically, the more women
study and gain knowledge and the more society is willing to accept that -
then the chances for having a woman "gedol hador" goes up.=20

Same goes for a job as a principal. If both are equally qualified then
it's a matter of personal choice. Men at times will tend to choose men
over women even if they are just as capable. (Don't get me wrong this is
not my personal view at all) . The more women there are for those
positions and the more it gets to be acceptable - the more likely it will
be that women will be chosen. It will be interesting to see the kivun of
religious society in the years to come.

Kol-toov,
Avi Lottner
Eretz Israel

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Jonathan Marvin — Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

The issue of a role model seems a bit of a red herring to me. Frankly,
how much of a role model is the principal for most students, especially as
compared with the teacher? Do most of the "good" students have much
contact with him or her at all?

In my school, the Chabad Cheder in Seattle, WA, a woman is the principal,
although the school policy is currently set by a man (the official
Lubavitch shaliach for Seattle) who also takes a more active role in
overseeing some of the older boys' classes. As far as I am aware, the
principal's gender has never been an issue.

Jonathan Marvin

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Jeremiah Unterman — Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

Re: Sotah - See Jacob Milgrom's commentary on Numbers, published by JPS.

Re: Women as Principals - it seems that the reason for the hiring of
primarily rabbis is because the school's board feels that only a rabbi
can make the proper halakhic decisions, has the proper halakhic
knowledge, and can be in charge of teaching Talmud. Added to these
biases is the obvious one of the male role model figure being more
important than the female. Further, no matter who is the principal, a
school should have faculty comprised of both male and female role
models.

Unfortunately, Jewish women cannot rely solely on Jewish men to change
the system. The liberal voices of such men have too little influence in
Orthodox Jewish life. Jewish wives and mothers are the ones who will
ultimately be successful in effecting change in Orthodoxy when they
deem it important and they are willing to act upon their beliefs. I've
always believed in the realpolitik of Lysistrata.

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Judith Ann Cohn — Tue, 09 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

I am new to this, so excuse me, please, if I am off track, but I have to
hope that Mr. Katz did not mean that response to be as insulting as it
sounded.

First of all, I do not believe that whether women can head boys' schools
is a restatement of her question, and yes, this sounds very personal. Her
query seemed quite clear as it was, and deliberately on this one aspect of
this issue: why can't women act as principals in co-ed schools?

While I do not want to keep the conversation going in that misdirection, I
will say that I do not believe that men can act the same as women as
figureheads for either school--"effective" and "alike" are much different
ideas--nor, on the same line, do I understand what loss the boys
experience with a female principal. By what criteria are we using
"effective?" I would think that the advantages that an all-boys school
would experience with a female principal are at least equal to the
disadvantages an all-girls school would suffer with a male principal . . .
in the end, I also do not believe that Ms. Schlaff is any closer to her
answer.

I am, however, be interested in the background explanation to Mr. Katz's
comments, and other answers to Ms. Schlaff's question.

Judith Ann Cohn
Instructor, Temple Israel Religious School, Charleston WV
Program Director, Instructor, Humanities Department, West Virginia State
College

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

RSToren — Tue, 09 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

One of the reasons I hear--emphasis on what I hear and decidedly NOT my
opinion--is that rabbinic faculty will not respect the authority of a non-
rabbinic head, woman or otherwise. Many co-ed schools find themselves
hiring rabbinic faculty more to the right than their missions. (This is
one of the challenges that places such as Bar Ilan will help address.)
Many of this right-leaning faculty are well-received and respected by kids
and parents, in spite of them not being a perfect fit for the school. In
other words, this faculty has clout in ways that may not fit the mission
of a school.
My opinion is that heads of school roles and responsibilities could be
clearly defined in ways that do not place the head in the position of mara
d'atra, rather as non-profit CEO. In such a schema, the head can have
under her/him a director of Judaic studies or even a rabbinic advisory
board to deal with certain clearly defined matters of halakha. I am not
implying that a woman/non-rabbi could not provide educational leadership
in Judaics. However, rabbinic faculty will inevitably question whether
someone without comparable yeshiva background can fill the role of
instructional leader.
FYI: Consider Beth Tefiloh Community Day School in Baltimore, whose head
of school enjoys an excellent reputation, as does the school.

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Stuart Zweiter — Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

I was pleased to see that Lisa Schlaff raised the important issue of
women in leadership positions in Jewish Day Schools. In fact there are
many more than three day schools seeking principals and finding it
extraordinarily difficult to identify appropriate candidates. The pool
of strong candidates seems to have become so small that a number of
schools have given up searching and have resorted to compromise
solutions.

Lisa's concerns deserve the serious thought and attention of both
Jewish educators and the community at large. To be quite candid with
you, I was disappointed in the number of responses to Lisa's
posting. It seems to me that this should be a burning issue for people
who care about Jewish education. I trust that it is not reflective of a
dismissive attitude and a preference and hope that questions concerning
women in the Orthodox community will somehow fade away. If we are
talking about models, can anyone argue with the fact that different
models are needed and that the goal in any school should be to try and
achieve a healthy balance and variety of models? Is it essential and
compulsory that the male model always be at the top of the
administrative pyramid? If we are speaking of professional
qualifications, can anyone suggest any connection whatsoever between
Semikha and effective school leadership?

Each school must of course define and determine its criteria and
preference in the choice of its principal. Our experience with numerous
schools confirms that Semikha is indeed a criteria, perhaps a sine qua
non for consideration. But how much should Semikha weigh? More or less
than professional preparation and qualification? More or less than the
ability to be an effective leader? More or less than proficiency in
faculty supervision? More or less than the ability to define curricular
goals and direct a serious process of curriculum development? And on
and on and on.

There are, Barukh Hashem, many very highly qualified women who are
preparing themselves for or have already begun careers in Jewish
education. They deserve the opportunity to serve as school leaders and
perhaps more importantly, teachers and students deserve the opportunity
to benefit from their expertise. And let us be honest with our situation
and be a bit selfish, are we so rich in talent that we can we afford to
suffer the consequences of continuing to keep them out?

I invite, encourage, urge you to respond. To borrow from Dr. Johnson, I
would rather be attacked than unnoticed. Again, the issue deserves
serious reflection and discussion.

Bivrakha,
Stuart Zweiter
Director, The Lookstein Center

Re: Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

David Katz — Mon, 08 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

Firstly, warm regards to Lisa Schlaff - it was nice to see your name for
the first time in 3 years. This is another great facet of this list -
being in touch with long lost friends that are also in Chinuch!

Regarding Lisa's question - I would like to state her question in
different words. It is obvious to me that the reason that a women is not
asked to be the principal in a co-ed school is because although a woman can
head a program for girls, it is assumed (and I am not stating a personal
opinion on this issue - just merely focusing her question!) that a women
cannot be the head of a program for boys. Yet it is taken for granted
that a man can be the head of a program for girls. Therefore, in a co-ed
setting where boys are also present, a man can head the whole institution
but a women can only head half! One can argue the premise here (that a
woman cannot head an institution for boys) and perhaps that is
the real question here. However, Since the question was not asked
regarding a woman running an all-boys institution, and it appears that
that is being taken for granted, I have to assume that the real issue here
is:

a) can in fact a man head an institution for girls equally well as a woman

and if not,

b) why should the need for a man to be the role-model for the boys
supersede the needs of the girls in that school that would be better
served by a woman.

if the answer to a) is that yes , a man can serve as a figure head for
girls just as well as a woman (or at least well-enough to out-weigh the
loss to the boys if they had a woman principal), then Lisa has her answer.

David Katz, Administrative Director - Michlelet Mevaseret Yerushalayim

Lack of opportunities for women in Jewish education

Lisa Schlaff — Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:00:00 -0700

Thank you again for your great work on the list!
I will re-state a plea that has been issued before - it would be helpful
if people writing in would identify their institutional affiliations -
even if they write often. As many people write to the list, it is hard to
remember where everyone is teaching, and always useful to have such
information.

I would like to raise an issue that I think deserves evaluation. Recently
I have become aware of at least three co-ed yeshiva day schools (two
elementary, one high school) seeking principals. In the job descriptions,
these schools all seek "Orthodox Rabbis," and in their desire for a
"rabbinic figure" at the head of the school, refuse to consider hiring
qualified women who could serve as educational and religious role models.
To the best of my knowledge, there are very few co-ed elementary or high
schools run by women. If women do obtain positions of leadership in
coed-high schools, it is as directors of secular studies. As women begin
to acquire the knowledge and talent to serve both in a professional
capacity and as religious role models, it is disturbing that they are
being disqualified from leadership positions. Thankfully, serious strides
are being taken towards improving girl's education. At the same time,
women should not be considered only as principals for all-girls schools. I
am bothered that mainstream modern -orthodox day schools cling to the
notion of "ordination" as a qualification for principalship.=20

Lisa Schlaff
Graduate Student Rabbinic Literature NYU and Drisha