Hi readers, The Ramban, in his commentary on the Tochecha-in Perek 28 of Devarim-this weeks Parshah, applies the content and lessons of the Tochecha to the destruction of the Second Bet Mikdash. To what extent can we apply this approach of the Ramban to understanding other tragic events in Jewish History when teaching our pupils? For instance when teaching about the fall of Betar and the Bar Kochba revolt,the pogroms of the middle ages, the expulsion from Spain, the Holocaust, soldiers dying in defense of the State of Israel etc.. Is there a danger in the 'playing G-d' approach? But this is the P'shat of the Pesukim of the Tochecha as the Ramban seems to infer. Your thoughts/views are welcome, Shanah Tovah Benjy http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18837#msg-18837 Wed, 19 Jun 2013 01:08:43 -0600 Phorum 5.2.19 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18849#msg-18849 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18849#msg-18849
Regarding: Applying the Tochecha to Jewish history/nowadays:

I would point out that Moshe did not say the Tochecha to women (and children?). This follows the general principle of "Tomar li'Beis Yakov" vs. "Tagid li'Bneis Yisroel."

Obviously, Moshe did not feel that everyone would take this kind of harsh rebuke in a constructive way.

I think that we can broaden this to concept and say that before any such application, one must be sure that the outcome on the listeners will be positive.

I would suggest that today, we are all like the women of Moshe's day in this regard. I think that today's culture is too sensitive to humans suffering to react favorably to such an approach.

In any event, I do not think that the Tochecha is meant to be an angry threat, but a statement of caution of what can happen to society without morality.]]> Benyomin Walters Lookjed List Archive Mon, 30 Aug 2010 14:13:07 -0600 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18847#msg-18847 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18847#msg-18847
A "Chassidishe Story"
Finally I would like to share a true Chassidic story involving the Klausenberger Rebbe, zt"l. This is an incident that happened shortly after World War II. The Klausenberger Rebbe made it out of the concentration camps. He gathered together a small community of followers who also survived the Holocaust and from this small group, he eventually rebuilt the whole community.
We are all familiar with the near universal custom that when the Torah reader reads the Tochacha in both Parshas Bechukosai and Ki Savo, he reads it in a subdued tone. We rush through it, as it were, and do not interrupt to give extra aliyos within those sections. We read it in hushed tones, as if to say: "If we read it quietly maybe it won't happen."
It was Parshas Ki Savo in the late 1940s and the Klausenberger Rebbe was in New York with his small minyan of followers. When the Baal Koreh began the Tochacha, he began it in a low voice, as is the custom in Israel.
The Klausenberger Rebbe banged on his shtender [lectern] and said "louder!" The Baal Koreh thought that he was reading so low that no one could hear, so he raised his voice a bit. Again the Rebbe banged and said "louder!" By the third time this scenario was repeated, the Baal Koreh got the message. The Rebbe did not want him to read the Tochacha in low tones or even in regular tones, but at the top of his lungs.
The Baal Koreh came to the Rebbe after the minyan and asked for an explanation. The Rebbe responded: "This can be read quietly when you are afraid that it might happen and you don't know what is going to happen to you once it happens. We, however, have already lived through this and we are still here. This is now something that we are proud of. This happened to us and we are still in shul on Shabbos. We are still reading the Torah each week! The Tochacha is now our badge of honor. It will no longer be read silently. It will be read completely out loud! We can say 'We were there. It happened to us and we have remained Jews of integrity (ehrlicher yidden).'"]]> Yeshai Koenigsberg Lookjed List Archive Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:23:13 -0600 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18842#msg-18842 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18842#msg-18842 "I want the Ribbono Shel Olam to hear that all of it has come true. It doesn't need to happen again."

Avi Billet]]> Avi Billet Lookjed List Archive Sun, 29 Aug 2010 15:44:13 -0600 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18841#msg-18841 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18841#msg-18841 others who applied particular nevuot to contemporary events, as one
would study any other aspect of their parshanut, with attention to
their exegetical work and its edifying possibilities.

2. Very specific applications often appear arbitrary, often they are
arbitrary and self-serving. Consequently, like all speculations of
this sort, they do not lead to love of G-d or fear of G-d (as the
Rambam phrases it in Hil Melakhim). What I wrote in "Cops and
Robbers" (Tradition Winter 2009 or 2008) is pertinent.

3. Adopting the halakhic view of teshuva (see above article and the
Rav's Kol Dodi Dofek) requires us to use experience as a spur to
teshuva. I believe this can best be done by abstaining from
speculations about particular events. It is better to bring our
experience to the Torah for G-d's judgment than to manipulate G-d's
word into a formula for contemporary events.

4. For an attempt to analyze the tokehhot and Haazinu in their own
terms, with the assumption that such literary and theological
analysis will shed light on our own experience, see my Cold Fury,
Hidden Face, The Jealousy of Israel: Two Kinds of Religious
Estrangement in the Torah (forthcoming, Tradition Winter 2010.)]]> Shalom Carmy Lookjed List Archive Sun, 29 Aug 2010 15:41:59 -0600 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18837#msg-18837 http://lookstein.org/lookjed/read.php?1,18837,18837#msg-18837
The Ramban, in his commentary on the Tochecha-in Perek 28 of Devarim-this weeks Parshah, applies the content and lessons of the Tochecha to the destruction of the Second Bet Mikdash.

To what extent can we apply this approach of the Ramban to understanding other tragic events in Jewish History when teaching our pupils? For instance when teaching about the fall of Betar and the Bar Kochba revolt,the pogroms of the middle ages, the expulsion from Spain, the Holocaust, soldiers dying in defense of the State of Israel etc..

Is there a danger in the 'playing G-d' approach? But this is the P'shat of the Pesukim of the Tochecha as the Ramban seems to infer.

Your thoughts/views are welcome,

Shanah Tovah

Benjy]]> Benjy Singer Lookjed List Archive Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:43:28 -0600