Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?
Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

November 30, 2010 12:55AM
In reading the discussion between Aharon Frazer and Rabbi Yissie Kaminetzky (a couple of old friends), the question that comes to mind is what Rabbi Kaminetzky's rationale is for wanting students to begin learning Gemara during their Middle School years. Having taught Middle School students for over a decade, I can understand Aharon's point - on educational grounds, Gemara is certainly inappropriate for 6th graders, and is over the head of a decent number of 7th and 8th grade students as well. That being the case (and my say-so does not make it established fact, but I believe that many share the same experiences), what is the reason, other than Aharon's "keeping up with the Joneses" desire to start Gemara earlier and thus seem somehow frummer or more authentic?

Rabbi Kaminetzky claims that he feels that Middle Schools should start Gemara so that students can build the vocabularies and Gemara skills. I have to disagree on both counts. I have found that main difficulty that many Middle School students have with Gemara is following the shakla v'tarya, and thus they basically try to repeat back key phrases - and thus teachers either dumb down their assessments or lose their students. That being the case, is this really the best way to pick up vocabulary? Wouldn't students pick up the key words just as fast if they waited a year or two and learned them while learning a text that they were developmentally ready for? The same argument goes for Gemara skills - which skills are we talking about?

Keep in mind as well that Middle Schools generally have the practical consideration of limited time to worry about. While there are some high schools which give Gemara 2-3 hours per day, rarely is there a Middle School that does that, and thus the choice is often a mutually exclusive one between Mishna and Gemara. Given that choice, which one will be best understood and appreciated by the pre-analytical minds of 12 year olds?

For a test case of these ideas, I would suggest looking at Maayanot Yeshiva High School for Girls in Teaneck. They tend to draw girls who have learned Gemara in Middle School as well as those who have not learned it at all. And yet they do not have separate tracks for those two groups of girls. What happens? Those who have not learned Gemara before high school usually make up the ground within the first months of their high school careers. Why is that? I would suggest that since their minds are now more ready for Gemara, they are able to pick up all of the skills that their classmates laboriously and sometimes painfully acquired in the previous two or three years. Something to think about.

Aaron Ross
Yavneh Academy, Paramus, NJ
Subject Author Posted

Why learn Gemara?

Shalom Z. Berger October 05, 2010 07:47AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Sarah Lefton October 06, 2010 07:07AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Moshe Yeres October 06, 2010 07:11AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Jeff Holman October 06, 2010 07:14AM

Why Teach Gemara? Ask your students

David Gleicher October 07, 2010 08:15AM

Re: Why Teach Gemara? Ask your students

Shira Hecht-Koller October 14, 2010 06:16AM

Re: Why Teach Gemara? Ask your students

Abe Katz October 14, 2010 06:50AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Anne Gordon October 06, 2010 08:01AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Maccabee Avishur October 07, 2010 05:53AM

Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Michael Poppers October 07, 2010 08:17AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Ari Kinsberg October 31, 2010 01:08PM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Meir Fachler November 03, 2010 08:46AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Ari Kinsberg November 03, 2010 12:47PM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Aharon Frazer November 11, 2010 02:05AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Yisroel Kaminetsky November 15, 2010 12:36AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Aaron Frazer November 18, 2010 11:41PM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Aaron Ross November 30, 2010 12:55AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Avraham Norin November 30, 2010 04:48AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Eli Handel November 15, 2010 12:27AM

Teaching Gemora in Elementary School

Gary Levine November 15, 2010 12:40AM

Re: Teaching Gemora in Elementary School

Stuart Schnee November 19, 2010 03:48AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Russell Jay Hendel November 22, 2010 12:33AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Yosef Goldberg December 07, 2010 04:06AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Russell Jay Hendel December 14, 2010 01:02PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Alex Schindler October 07, 2010 08:17AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Simon Goulden October 14, 2010 05:46AM

Re: Why teach Gemara?

Jon Levisohn October 09, 2010 11:02PM

Teaching Gemara

Aaron Ross October 09, 2010 11:09PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

David Brofsky October 09, 2010 11:13PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Norman Meskin October 11, 2010 08:55PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Yisroel Kaminetsky October 14, 2010 04:58AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Kalman Neuman October 14, 2010 06:07AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Yeshai Koenigsberg October 20, 2010 01:46PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Aliza Libman Baronofsky October 14, 2010 06:18AM

Why teach Gemara?

Aryeh Klapper October 17, 2010 03:40AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Debbie Lifschitz October 17, 2010 03:44AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Jon A. Levisohn October 17, 2010 03:51AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Ken Leitner October 17, 2010 04:38PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Daniel Rosen October 18, 2010 03:39AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Leah Perl Shollar October 18, 2010 03:41AM

Why is Gemara study only for the Orthodox?

Cecilia Rozen October 18, 2010 04:03AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Yosef Goldberg October 18, 2010 04:06AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Rafi Eis October 20, 2010 02:56PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Barry Kislowicz October 20, 2010 02:57PM

Understanding the Talmud: Beyond Halacha LeMaaseh

Warren Cinamon October 20, 2010 02:58PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Elisha Paul October 24, 2010 03:36AM

Rav Lichtenstein on "Why learn Gemara?"

Alan J. Wecker October 24, 2010 06:56AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Ari Kinsberg November 23, 2010 06:37AM



Author:

Your Email:


Subject:


Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
This is a moderated forum. Your message will remain hidden until it has been approved by a moderator or administrator