Re: Why learn Gemara?
Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Re: Why learn Gemara?

October 17, 2010 03:44AM
The question is not “Why teach?” rather, the curricular questions are what. when, to whom, how and how much? Obviously, the answers to some of these overlap, but some principles seem clear enough.

When? To Whom? Being able to learn Gemora is dependent on pre-requisites that include cognitive abilities, language readiness, and prior knowledge. Several programs ensure prerequisite skills and a structured approach, such as Zilbermann, Barka’i, and Rav Meir Pogrow. There is no reason to teach Gemora to kids who have insufficient background in Chumash, Nach and mishnah. Yet this is what is happening in many frameworks. This system either doesn’t work or works poorly. When exactly did we decide that “ben esser lamishna” should become “ben esser la’talmud” especially in chutz la’aretz, but even for Hebrew speakers? One of the things that research has made clear in many advanced subject areas, is that starting early has no advantage aside from status. Kids who start later with stronger background skills, catch up very quickly and often surpass the early- starters.

What? It makes no sense to start teaching a masechet in Gemora to kids who are unfamiliar with that masechet in mishna. In addition, it is not clear, that deciding to teach THIS or that masechet in ninth grade, is suitable. Appropriacy is usually the other way around: Which masechet is appropriate fot THIS ninth grade? That may mean curricular shifts in a school on a yearly basis. Similarly, it may not be helpful to introduce tosfot/os too early. The question of bekiyut/us vs, iyun has a long history, but certainly, for kids for whom Biblical Hebrew , Rabbinic Hebrew (lashon chazal) and Aramaic are second, third and fourth languages, and who are struggling with any or all of these, adding tosfot would seem a questionable pedagogy.

How? Mishna is in Hebrew. Gemora by and large is not. So Mishna helps as far as structure and content but not language. When my son, who has ADD and is dyslexic, was a year before learning gemora, we did chumash with Onkelos, 10 minutes a day. We got through all of Bereishit and all of Shemot by the end of the year, and he never had a problem with gemora, in spite of the differences between Aramit Glilit and Aramit Bavlit. Not all kids need preparatory learning, but at least some do. Another way of doing this, is to teach some familiar midrashim (familiar to the students) that appear in Aaramit in the gemora, before introducing gemora learning itself. The content is not new. The language is. Relevance is another big issue. We do not teach legal issues of torts, taxation, jurisdiction, contracts in English (or modern Hebrew), yet we fully expect kids to be passionate about such issues in Aramaic. It wouldn’t hurt for social studies (civics) or ezrachut (Israeli curriculum) programs to pick up on some parallel issues. There are many amazing teachers of gemora, so I will not discuss the pedagogy of teaching sugyot,. But no other consideration is as important as a good teacher.

How much? This depends on curricular goals. What is the purpose of teaching gemora in your school? Is it preparatory to being able to follow “daf yomi” (and today is the yahrzeit of reb Meir Shapiro, 7 Cheshvan), or is it preparatory to being able to handle the more intense ‘shakla ve’tariya’ of learning? The lower the curricular goals, the less curricular time will be devoted and the lower the ultimate skills of students.

Dr. Debbie Lifschitz
Subject Author Posted

Why learn Gemara?

Shalom Z. Berger October 05, 2010 07:47AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Sarah Lefton October 06, 2010 07:07AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Moshe Yeres October 06, 2010 07:11AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Jeff Holman October 06, 2010 07:14AM

Why Teach Gemara? Ask your students

David Gleicher October 07, 2010 08:15AM

Re: Why Teach Gemara? Ask your students

Shira Hecht-Koller October 14, 2010 06:16AM

Re: Why Teach Gemara? Ask your students

Abe Katz October 14, 2010 06:50AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Anne Gordon October 06, 2010 08:01AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Maccabee Avishur October 07, 2010 05:53AM

Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Michael Poppers October 07, 2010 08:17AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Ari Kinsberg October 31, 2010 01:08PM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Meir Fachler November 03, 2010 08:46AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Ari Kinsberg November 03, 2010 12:47PM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Aharon Frazer November 11, 2010 02:05AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Yisroel Kaminetsky November 15, 2010 12:36AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Aaron Frazer November 18, 2010 11:41PM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Aaron Ross November 30, 2010 12:55AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Avraham Norin November 30, 2010 04:48AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Eli Handel November 15, 2010 12:27AM

Teaching Gemora in Elementary School

Gary Levine November 15, 2010 12:40AM

Re: Teaching Gemora in Elementary School

Stuart Schnee November 19, 2010 03:48AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Russell Jay Hendel November 22, 2010 12:33AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Yosef Goldberg December 07, 2010 04:06AM

Re: Why begin teaching Gemara in elementary-school grades?

Russell Jay Hendel December 14, 2010 01:02PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Alex Schindler October 07, 2010 08:17AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Simon Goulden October 14, 2010 05:46AM

Re: Why teach Gemara?

Jon Levisohn October 09, 2010 11:02PM

Teaching Gemara

Aaron Ross October 09, 2010 11:09PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

David Brofsky October 09, 2010 11:13PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Norman Meskin October 11, 2010 08:55PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Yisroel Kaminetsky October 14, 2010 04:58AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Kalman Neuman October 14, 2010 06:07AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Yeshai Koenigsberg October 20, 2010 01:46PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Aliza Libman Baronofsky October 14, 2010 06:18AM

Why teach Gemara?

Aryeh Klapper October 17, 2010 03:40AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Debbie Lifschitz October 17, 2010 03:44AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Jon A. Levisohn October 17, 2010 03:51AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Ken Leitner October 17, 2010 04:38PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Daniel Rosen October 18, 2010 03:39AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Leah Perl Shollar October 18, 2010 03:41AM

Why is Gemara study only for the Orthodox?

Cecilia Rozen October 18, 2010 04:03AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Yosef Goldberg October 18, 2010 04:06AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Rafi Eis October 20, 2010 02:56PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Barry Kislowicz October 20, 2010 02:57PM

Understanding the Talmud: Beyond Halacha LeMaaseh

Warren Cinamon October 20, 2010 02:58PM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Elisha Paul October 24, 2010 03:36AM

Rav Lichtenstein on "Why learn Gemara?"

Alan J. Wecker October 24, 2010 06:56AM

Re: Why learn Gemara?

Ari Kinsberg November 23, 2010 06:37AM



Author:

Your Email:


Subject:


Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
This is a moderated forum. Your message will remain hidden until it has been approved by a moderator or administrator